S7 PLAYOFFS - QUARTER FINALS

[hakos]

Losing the match was expected, 0-4 maybe a little more than I thought.

4 dead and another 6 badly hurt in total means this was the bloodiest match I have ever played. I believe the dark elf's did not KO any player for me, they hurt them instead. The dark elf apothecary managed to save his blitzer from death, but my doctor will be fired for incompetence. So in practice only 3 dead.

Among the dead was my second best player, the 14 SPP blitzer, and since Morg got the MVP this meant that in total I ended up with -8 SPP.

I was really impressed by the play from Barmution, didn't see any mistake at all and he really took advantage of the ones I did. Well played, good luck in the semi's.

[Barmution]

Yeah, it was some ridiculous injury rolls I got, really sorry it had to hit you as you were severely underskilled as it was compared to my DElves. I've got to say that you played very decently, except for sometimes leaving your cage corners in contact with my players. Additionally, I don't think taking Tackle without having Block or Wrestle for protection first on linemen is very viable, but you got some milage out of it when you hurt off my (IMHO) best Blitzer early in the match. One thing you might want to consider next time you get Morg is to use him as a ball-carrier if you're really playing to win, as I would have MASSIVE problems dealing with him while you still had a crew to screen him. Another option would be to get Griff instead and load up on apothecaries, bribes and babes. In my experience Morg can be wasted inducements if you have poor 2d6 luck and don't use him to score. Griff is a fantastic ball carrier and you could easily use him to get into position and then hand-off to a player that needs SPP instead. Plus, Humans really shine as a bash team when they get in position to gang foul a lot. Griff will help you keep the ball safe while the rest of your team can focus on hurting lone players.

A very good Human coach posted this post on BBTactics.com, it's well worth a read.

Again, not really fun to maim a relatively rookie team like that. Hope to see your luck change and your team grow next season.

-Barm

[hakos]

Yeah, it was some ridiculous injury rolls I got, really sorry it had to hit you as you were severely underskilled as it was compared to my DElves. I've got to say that you played very decently, except for sometimes leaving your cage corners in contact with my players. Additionally, I don't think taking Tackle without having Block or Wrestle for protection first on linemen is very viable, but you got some milage out of it when you hurt off my (IMHO) best Blitzer early in the match. One thing you might want to consider next time you get Morg is to use him as a ball-carrier if you're really playing to win, as I would have MASSIVE problems dealing with him while you still had a crew to screen him. Another option would be to get Griff instead and load up on apothecaries, bribes and babes. In my experience Morg can be wasted inducements if you have poor 2d6 luck and don't use him to score. Griff is a fantastic ball carrier and you could easily use him to get into position and then hand-off to a player that needs SPP instead. Plus, Humans really shine as a bash team when they get in position to gang foul a lot. Griff will help you keep the ball safe while the rest of your team can focus on hurting lone players.

A very good Human coach posted this post on BBTactics.com, it's well worth a read.

Again, not really fun to maim a relatively rookie team like that. Hope to see your luck change and your team grow next season.

-Barm

Thanks a lot for the advice, it's very much appreciated, I'm still learning a lot of the finer points of this game.

I agree that I misplaced my cage corners at two times, not good.

I choosed between block and tackle on my lineman's before the match and in 90% of all cases I would have taken block. My reasoning for tackle was to have some kind of weapon against all your blodgers, especially those with side step. And yes, I did this choice because I tried to win. If I had thought more on the next season I would definitely have taken block. For the reasons you stated.

My plan with Morg was to constantly hit your weakest player in order to reduce your players and thereby be able to handle your best ones easier. But that did not work out since Morg's only success in the first half was to get one stun in 8 rounds. It took quite some time before I realized it would probably have been better to use him as ball carrier. He would still have been able to hurt your players and he would have tied up your best players and my other players would have had more freedom. Lesson learned for next time I use him.

I was considering taking Zara + Griff instead of Morg but since you have two tackle players you could handle them much more easier than Morg and I wanted to have two guys with mighty blow to have a bigger chance of removing your players from the field.

I have never really tried the fouling game. Is it considered ok in this league to use fouling extensively?

/H

[Barmution]

Zara would've been good against my av7 players (4 of them), especially since you don't need to get them down to roll armor. I understand the hurting tactics, but as I mentioned in-game you might've helped Morg by getting him 3D blocks.

As to fouling, it's a legit tactic with it's own risks and rewards. I find it best used with discretion on targeted players(hello kvailad's Mino!), but coaches like Luiggi has been known to put the boot in rather actively at the end of a match when he's frustrated about his Orcs not injuring the opposition by more conventional means ;) So to answer your question: I don't think the community here frowns upon it as a tactic, but some players might feel more adverse to it than others. Not me though, about 1/3 odds for getting a player sent off if you break armor seems a decent risk to take to try to get a player out. I find fouling to be a pretty balanced mechanic.

[hakos]

Just one question about BB Manager

Getingarna (inflicted): knocked downs - 16, KO - 4, Inj - 4, deaths - 1
DSS:         (inflicted): knocked downs -   8, KO - 0, Inj - 6, deaths - 2

Do I read these numbers correct if I assume the following:

* I got 16 armor rolls while DSS got 8
* Out of 16 possibilties I removed someone from the field 8 times, while DSS did the same for 6 of his 8 attempts

?

/H

[tags]

I just played a norse team with my dark elves in crunch cup, and he took 2 bribes as inducements, to complement his Dirty Player... I think he fouled me in just about every turn except 16!

But even so, also considering being under Barmutation's numerous boots more often than not, I find fouling to be a perfectly acceptable tactic. That is, as long as you have something to gain from removing the player. If you have the last turn 16, and you foul without that having any theoretical impact on the final outcome of the match, you're just being an asshole :D

[Barmution]

Just one question about BB Manager

Getingarna (inflicted): knocked downs - 16, KO - 4, Inj - 4, deaths - 1
DSS:         (inflicted): knocked downs -   8, KO - 0, Inj - 6, deaths - 2

Do I read these numbers correct if I assume the following:

* I got 16 armor rolls while DSS got 8
* Out of 16 possibilties I removed someone from the field 8 times, while DSS did the same for 6 of his 8 attempts

Not quite... 16 is the number of armor rolls you succeeded on, ie knockded downs - cas - KO = stuns. If you take a look at your 2d6 stats you can see that you broke my armor very often, but only succeeding in average KO/cas, while I didn't make as many armor rolls (relative to getting a player down with a block) but when I did it was a 10 or better 6 out of 4 times! So while you had the luck with your armor rolls, I had insane luck with my injury rolls.

[Gnaarkill]

you're just being an asshole :D

Isnt it ok to be an asshole? :)
Never that i have fouled on turn 16, i have thought of it on several occasions though ;)
My personal opionion is that its part of the game, plus you have always the chance to kill someone!  8)

/Gnaarkill

[tags]

Isnt it ok to be an asshole?

I believe everyone will have to answer that for themselves :P

Never that i have fouled on turn 16, i have thought of it on several occasions though
My personal opionion is that its part of the game, plus you have always the chance to kill someone! 

It definitely is part of the game, and there are no rules in this league against fouling on turn 16 as far as I know. I'm merely saying that I would be considering you an asshole for doing so, which may or may not matter to you in the slightest :D

There are exceptions, you could be on turn 16 while your opponent has his turn 16 afterwards, and you could be fouling his jump-up ball carrier who is actually threatening a TD in his turn 16. In that case, it would be perfectly legitimate. If you had received SPP for causing injuries through fouling (which you don't), then it would also have been legitimate, as there is a clear gain potential for you.

I guess there's also the argument that you know you're going to meet this guy again in the play-offs right after this match or something like that, but I think that's pretty thin.

Given no such circumstances, you're doing absolutely nothing but attempting to cause grief, with no potential benefits for yourself. That's pretty close to my exact definition of being an asshole :D

[Luiggi]

Zara would've been good against my av7 players (4 of them), especially since you don't need to get them down to roll armor. I understand the hurting tactics, but as I mentioned in-game you might've helped Morg by getting him 3D blocks.

As to fouling, it's a legit tactic with it's own risks and rewards. I find it best used with discretion on targeted players(hello kvailad's Mino!), but coaches like Luiggi has been known to put the boot in rather actively at the end of a match when he's frustrated about his Orcs not injuring the opposition by more conventional means ;) So to answer your question: I don't think the community here frowns upon it as a tactic, but some players might feel more adverse to it than others. Not me though, about 1/3 odds for getting a player sent off if you break armor seems a decent risk to take to try to get a player out. I find fouling to be a pretty balanced mechanic.

True, I tend to get frustrated when dudes in inferior armor with less Mighty Blow manage to break my orcs like glass. Keep in mind that if I haven't caused any serious damage in 15 turns, there's nothing to worry about about one more armor roll :P So it's more like proving a point on how injury rolls evade a team in a particular match ;D

Given no such circumstances, you're doing absolutely nothing but attempting to cause grief, with no potential benefits for yourself.

There is potential benefit: some coaches will think it twice about piling on in turn 16 :D I also find it totally acceptable to foul in turn 16 if you suffered some important losses during the match and the other team hasn't. Call it some sort of justice or whatever. It's a whole different story when you've destroyed the opposition and you still foul on turn 16 without showing some mercy... that's kinda weak :P

So... what are the semi-finals match-ups?

[Barmution]

I guess there's also the argument that you know you're going to meet this guy again in the play-offs right after this match or something like that, but I think that's pretty thin.

Given no such circumstances, you're doing absolutely nothing but attempting to cause grief, with no potential benefits for yourself. That's pretty close to my exact definition of being an asshole :D

Well, you could argue that if you remove a dedicated ball-handler from a killer team, you would make it harder for that team to get to play you in the play-offs. I really don't see why a Chaos or Orc player that has loaded exclusively up on MB, PO and Claw should have reason to whine if they are subjected to turn 16 foul. After all their whole strategy is to hurt players, some righteous vengeance should be expected. Que Pulp Fiction quote  ;)

@Luiggi:
I was in no way holding it against you, mate. I would've been pissed too.

[tags]

Well, you could argue that if you remove a dedicated ball-handler from a killer team, you would make it harder for that team to get to play you in the play-offs.

I still think that's a bit too thin and conditional. Maybe if you, say, definitely know you're gonna face this guy in your next match.

I really don't see why a Chaos or Orc player that has loaded exclusively up on MB, PO and Claw should have reason to whine if they are subjected to turn 16 foul. After all their whole strategy is to hurt players, some righteous vengeance should be expected. Que Pulp Fiction quote  ;)

Hehe, well, ok, if you have made such a team exclusively to try to kill, maybe. You may not really be interested in trying to win. If such a team has a couple of killers, then no, I don't really agree with this justification either. Numbers advantage is the only thing that enable certain teams to win against agile teams.

I can, however, understand the pure frustration in some games that will lead up to doing this out of pure rage, instead of it being "premeditated" as such :D

[Barmution]

Well, you could argue that if you remove a dedicated ball-handler from a killer team, you would make it harder for that team to get to play you in the play-offs.

I still think that's a bit too thin and conditional. Maybe if you, say, definitely know you're gonna face this guy in your next match.

Yeah, I don't really agree with that myself. I just said that you could argue it.  ;)

I really don't see why a Chaos or Orc player that has loaded exclusively up on MB, PO and Claw should have reason to whine if they are subjected to turn 16 foul. After all their whole strategy is to hurt players, some righteous vengeance should be expected. Que Pulp Fiction quote  ;)

Hehe, well, ok, if you have made such a team exclusively to try to kill, maybe. You may not really be interested in trying to win. If such a team has a couple of killers, then no, I don't really agree with this justification either. Numbers advantage is the only thing that enable certain teams to win against agile teams.

I can, however, understand the pure frustration in some games that will lead up to doing this out of pure rage, instead of it being "premeditated" as such :D

Agreed on both parts.

[Luiggi]

@Luiggi:
I was in no way holding it against you, mate. I would've been pissed too.

I know, I know :D

[Mr B]

Regarding fouls, it's legal no matter when you do it.
Totally according to the rules.
So it's down to value risk vs cost, doing it turn 18 well as we are running a tight league.
We will face one another quite soon, so is more a friendly matter doing it or not.

For myself, it's only matter if protecting players or the game.
B